We did a beautiful leaf-peeping flight up the Mississippi River to
LaCrosse, WI (KLSE) today. Our recent spate of high winds and heavy
rains had torn many of the leaves down before they could reach their
prime, but tbe golds and reds along the bluffs that line the shoreline
were still breath-taking.

Tooling along at 3500 feet just south of Prairie du Chein (KPDC) we
had our first bird encounter -- a huge flock of Canadian Geese flying
down-river ABOVE us. The sight of those beautful birds migrating en
masse to warmer climes was fantastic, but certainly gave one pause, as
we considered what each one weighed.

Our second encounter was just a few minutes later, when a V-formation
passed beneath us. and we again pondered what might happen should we
run into one of those flocks. We also noted that the geese looked
black from below, but white from above...

The third encounter occurred as we were coming into land on Rwy 36 in
LaCrosse. Three miles out and a quick blur out of the corner of my
eye. I turned my head long enough to see another V-formation whiz by
1/4 mile off our right wing.

After a nice day in LaCrosse we were again on the look-out for the
birds as we headed down-river toward home. With the strong northerly
winds aloft, we were doing over 175 knots ground speed. At that
speed we (and they) wouldn't have much time to "see and avoid", so we
decided to ignore the pretty colors and climb high, hopefully above
their preferred altitudes.

I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
tales", or is it true?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Good question.

I've seen hawks and eagles at 3,000 to 5,000 agl (5,000 - 7,000 msl)
around here. It there a "horn" option for my Cessna toi scare them away?

Plus...why do those Canadian Geese camp out on the lawn between our
parallel runways and just sit there while I take off/land? It makes me
a little nervous.

Al
1964 Cessna
Spokane WA
KSFF

Jay Honeck wrote:

(Snip)

> I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
> invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
> tales", or is it true?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Jay

Was in a friends 337 and passing under a 15-20 # buzzard. Thought we
were clear but as I approached and too close to escape, it folded it's
wings and dropped down and hit the leading edge of port wing. Put a
dent about a foot deep in wing leading edge.

So, don't fly close under any big birds if you can help it. If you do
be alert.

Big John

************************************************** ****

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:16:50 -0700, Jay Honeck >
wrote:

>We did a beautiful leaf-peeping flight up the Mississippi River to
>LaCrosse, WI (KLSE) today. Our recent spate of high winds and heavy
>rains had torn many of the leaves down before they could reach their
>prime, but tbe golds and reds along the bluffs that line the shoreline
>were still breath-taking.
>
>Tooling along at 3500 feet just south of Prairie du Chein (KPDC) we
>had our first bird encounter -- a huge flock of Canadian Geese flying
>down-river ABOVE us. The sight of those beautful birds migrating en
>masse to warmer climes was fantastic, but certainly gave one pause, as
>we considered what each one weighed.
>
>Our second encounter was just a few minutes later, when a V-formation
>passed beneath us. and we again pondered what might happen should we
>run into one of those flocks. We also noted that the geese looked
>black from below, but white from above...
>
>The third encounter occurred as we were coming into land on Rwy 36 in
>LaCrosse. Three miles out and a quick blur out of the corner of my
>eye. I turned my head long enough to see another V-formation whiz by
>1/4 mile off our right wing.
>
>After a nice day in LaCrosse we were again on the look-out for the
>birds as we headed down-river toward home. With the strong northerly
>winds aloft, we were doing over 175 knots ground speed. At that
>speed we (and they) wouldn't have much time to "see and avoid", so we
>decided to ignore the pretty colors and climb high, hopefully above
>their preferred altitudes.
>
>I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
>invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
>tales", or is it true?

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
rtherly

> winds aloft, we were doing over 175 knots ground speed. At that
> speed we (and they) wouldn't have much time to "see and avoid",


> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
Winds aloft have no effect on closing speeds. But you are wise to avoid
birds. A friend was killed in a Beaver when an eagle went through the
windshield. A KC-135 was taken out with a flock that flamed out all 4
engines.

Karl
"curator" N185KG

I've seen cockpits and radar domes of low level B-52s after such an
encounter.. not a pretty sight.. and luckily not me.
Large migrating birds do tend to dive when approached or surprised.. it's
the fastest escape they know.

Large soaring raptors just tend to look funny at you as you sneak up on them
(in a glider) and give you the once over,, are you a threat or a meal.. I've
also seen them tuck and dive when approached from a front aspect. Never get
under a bird.

I did have a streak down the side of the cockpit and fuselage one night on
the ILS. He left an oil streak and a few feathers, the DNA said Snow Owl..
we think he survived but he really spooked the co-pilot when he went by.

I've also seen soaring raptors just miss the cockpit at FL200, and I did not
see any O2 mask.

A B-1 was downed by a migrating brown pelican about 1000ft AGL in Colorado,
September 1987. They estimated the bird's weight at 15 to 20 pounds. (based
on the average size of the migrating flock in the area)

BT

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> We did a beautiful leaf-peeping flight up the Mississippi River to
> LaCrosse, WI (KLSE) today. Our recent spate of high winds and heavy
> rains had torn many of the leaves down before they could reach their
> prime, but tbe golds and reds along the bluffs that line the shoreline
> were still breath-taking.
>
> Tooling along at 3500 feet just south of Prairie du Chein (KPDC) we
> had our first bird encounter -- a huge flock of Canadian Geese flying
> down-river ABOVE us. The sight of those beautful birds migrating en
> masse to warmer climes was fantastic, but certainly gave one pause, as
> we considered what each one weighed.
>
> Our second encounter was just a few minutes later, when a V-formation
> passed beneath us. and we again pondered what might happen should we
> run into one of those flocks. We also noted that the geese looked
> black from below, but white from above...
>
> The third encounter occurred as we were coming into land on Rwy 36 in
> LaCrosse. Three miles out and a quick blur out of the corner of my
> eye. I turned my head long enough to see another V-formation whiz by
> 1/4 mile off our right wing.
>
> After a nice day in LaCrosse we were again on the look-out for the
> birds as we headed down-river toward home. With the strong northerly
> winds aloft, we were doing over 175 knots ground speed. At that
> speed we (and they) wouldn't have much time to "see and avoid", so we
> decided to ignore the pretty colors and climb high, hopefully above
> their preferred altitudes.
>
> I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
> invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
> tales", or is it true?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Jay,

I flew right over La Crosse on the way home from Oshkosh, so I have an
idea of what it looks like there now...

My closest encounter with a large bird was back when I lived in
Seattle. I was in a 172 with a friend going into Port Townsend. I
spotted a bald eagle at our 12'Oclock, but by the time I could say
anything to the guy in the left seat, it had veered away from us and
passed just a few feet off of our right wingtip.

It was HUGE.

Dean

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> We did a beautiful leaf-peeping flight up the Mississippi River to
> LaCrosse, WI (KLSE) today. Our recent spate of high winds and heavy
> rains had torn many of the leaves down before they could reach their
> prime, but tbe golds and reds along the bluffs that line the shoreline
> were still breath-taking.

> Tooling along at 3500 feet just south of Prairie du Chein (KPDC) we
> had our first bird encounter -- a huge flock of Canadian Geese flying
> down-river ABOVE us. The sight of those beautful birds migrating en
> masse to warmer climes was fantastic, but certainly gave one pause, as
> we considered what each one weighed.

> Our second encounter was just a few minutes later, when a V-formation
> passed beneath us. and we again pondered what might happen should we
> run into one of those flocks. We also noted that the geese looked
> black from below, but white from above...

> The third encounter occurred as we were coming into land on Rwy 36 in
> LaCrosse. Three miles out and a quick blur out of the corner of my
> eye. I turned my head long enough to see another V-formation whiz by
> 1/4 mile off our right wing.

> After a nice day in LaCrosse we were again on the look-out for the
> birds as we headed down-river toward home. With the strong northerly
> winds aloft, we were doing over 175 knots ground speed. At that
> speed we (and they) wouldn't have much time to "see and avoid", so we
> decided to ignore the pretty colors and climb high, hopefully above
> their preferred altitudes.

> I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
> invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
> tales", or is it true?

According to an article on the AOPA site (search for "bird hazard")
they TEND to dive.

Which says to me your chances are better by climbing but there is no
guarantee unless you have an agreement signed by the bird that they
will always dive.

Another article I read (which I forget where at the moment) said that
at very low altitudes, i.e. short final, they tend to climb.

My one encounter with a big bird, which I think was a big hawk, at
pattern altitude, he dove, I climbed, and everyone was happy.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Oct 24, 10:55 pm, wrote:
> Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > We did a beautiful leaf-peeping flight up the Mississippi River to
> > LaCrosse, WI (KLSE) today. Our recent spate of high winds and heavy
> > rains had torn many of the leaves down before they could reach their
> > prime, but tbe golds and reds along the bluffs that line the shoreline
> > were still breath-taking.
> > Tooling along at 3500 feet just south of Prairie du Chein (KPDC) we
> > had our first bird encounter -- a huge flock of Canadian Geese flying
> > down-river ABOVE us. The sight of those beautful birds migrating en
> > masse to warmer climes was fantastic, but certainly gave one pause, as
> > we considered what each one weighed.
> > Our second encounter was just a few minutes later, when a V-formation
> > passed beneath us. and we again pondered what might happen should we
> > run into one of those flocks. We also noted that the geese looked
> > black from below, but white from above...
> > The third encounter occurred as we were coming into land on Rwy 36 in
> > LaCrosse. Three miles out and a quick blur out of the corner of my
> > eye. I turned my head long enough to see another V-formation whiz by
> > 1/4 mile off our right wing.
> > After a nice day in LaCrosse we were again on the look-out for the
> > birds as we headed down-river toward home. With the strong northerly
> > winds aloft, we were doing over 175 knots ground speed. At that
> > speed we (and they) wouldn't have much time to "see and avoid", so we
> > decided to ignore the pretty colors and climb high, hopefully above
> > their preferred altitudes.
> > I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
> > invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
> > tales", or is it true?
>
> According to an article on the AOPA site (search for "bird hazard")
> they TEND to dive.
>
> Which says to me your chances are better by climbing but there is no
> guarantee unless you have an agreement signed by the bird that they
> will always dive.
>
> Another article I read (which I forget where at the moment) said that
> at very low altitudes, i.e. short final, they tend to climb.
>
> My one encounter with a big bird, which I think was a big hawk, at
> pattern altitude, he dove, I climbed, and everyone was happy.
>
> --
> Jim Pennino
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.

It's better to hit a hawk than a Hawker.

> Winds aloft have no effect on closing speeds.

You're right, of course. D'oh!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Oct 24, 11:50 pm, wrote:
> I flew right over La Crosse on the way home from Oshkosh, so I have an
> idea of what it looks like there now...

That whole area is soooo beautiful. The colors aren't the best we've
seen, thanks to the harsh winds and rain, but they were still
fantastic.

Lacrosse itself is going through a bit of a renaissance, after a
decade or two of downturns. They've starting to revive their
riverfront, and the old Heilleman brewery (formerly Old Style) is
churning out beer again.

They have a nice FBO, too, although everything was more expensive than
necessary. $5 per gallon gas, and a rental car with only 100 miles
permitted always aggravates me...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
> We did a beautiful leaf-peeping flight up the Mississippi River to
> LaCrosse, WI (KLSE) today. Our recent spate of high winds and heavy
> rains had torn many of the leaves down before they could reach their
> prime, but tbe golds and reds along the bluffs that line the shoreline
> were still breath-taking.
>
> Tooling along at 3500 feet just south of Prairie du Chein (KPDC) we
> had our first bird encounter -- a huge flock of Canadian Geese flying
> down-river ABOVE us. The sight of those beautful birds migrating en
> masse to warmer climes was fantastic, but certainly gave one pause, as
> we considered what each one weighed.
>
> Our second encounter was just a few minutes later, when a V-formation
> passed beneath us. and we again pondered what might happen should we
> run into one of those flocks. We also noted that the geese looked
> black from below, but white from above...
>
> The third encounter occurred as we were coming into land on Rwy 36 in
> LaCrosse. Three miles out and a quick blur out of the corner of my
> eye. I turned my head long enough to see another V-formation whiz by
> 1/4 mile off our right wing.
>
> After a nice day in LaCrosse we were again on the look-out for the
> birds as we headed down-river toward home. With the strong northerly
> winds aloft, we were doing over 175 knots ground speed. At that
> speed we (and they) wouldn't have much time to "see and avoid", so we
> decided to ignore the pretty colors and climb high, hopefully above
> their preferred altitudes.
>
> I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
> invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
> tales", or is it true?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Years ago one fall evening, I was flying SW of Kansas City MO and
landing at Johnson Co Airport. Entering the pattern I was passing
through a flock of ducks. there must have be a couple of thousand! I
guess they were looking for a landing spot before their continued
migration. I had the same thoughts. I have seen buzzards and hawks take
a dive away from me before.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

On Oct 24, 7:16 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:

Jay,
I know how beautiful the river flight can be at this time of year.
However, over the last several years the number of eagles flying along
the river has increased dramatically. I have had several near misses
in the last few months. I now avoid flight near the river at low
altitudes if at all possible. Just an FYI.

Cary

> We did a beautiful leaf-peeping flight up the Mississippi River to
> LaCrosse, WI (KLSE) today. Our recent spate of high winds and heavy
> rains had torn many of the leaves down before they could reach their
> prime, but tbe golds and reds along the bluffs that line the shoreline
> were still breath-taking.
>

Jay Honeck > writes:
> I have heard that birds, when confronted with airplanes, will
> invariable *dive* to avoid us. Is this one of those "old pilot's
> tales", or is it true?

I don't know if it is always true -- but at KPAO (my home airport) you
do final for Runway 31 over the town dump and then over a duck pond.
Loads of birds. Every time I have come anywhere near the birds they
have dived. (If I see them early enough I go around before getting
close.) It is quite possible that this is natural selection at work
-- any birds in this area which do _not_ dive don't last very long...

Chris